No subject
Thu Feb 26 09:11:47 GMT 2015
Version 7.8.4 (released December 23rd 2014)
Stop!
For most users, we recommend installing the Haskell Platform
<http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/> instead of GHC. The current Haskell
Platform release includes a recent GHC release as well as some other tools
(such as cabal), and a larger set of libraries that are known to work
together.
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 11:01 AM, Simon Peyton Jones <simonpj at microsoft.com=
>
wrote:
> I notice that in the new Haskell pages, the Platform is definitely not
> the recommended way to go:
>
>
>
> Like Richard, I was astonished by this. I always thought that the Haskell
> Platform was *the* route of choice to install GHC, together with a
> respectable set of libraries. It=E2=80=99s certainly what I install on =
a new
> machine!
>
>
>
> Let=E2=80=99s not forget the large but non-vocal set of ill-informed and/=
or
> would-be users, who want a simple answer to =E2=80=9CHow do I install GHC=
?=E2=80=9D. It
> may be that the HP formula needs re-visiting, but I think it=E2=80=99s ve=
ry
> important that we continue to give a very simple (click here) answer to
> that question.
>
>
>
> Simon
>
>
>
> *From:* Libraries [mailto:libraries-bounces at haskell.org] *On Behalf Of *M=
ark
> Lentczner
> *Sent:* 21 March 2015 17:54
> *To:* ghc-devs at haskell.org; Haskell Libraries;
> haskell-platform at projects.haskell.org;
> haskell-infrastructure at community.galois.com
> *Subject:* wither the Platform
>
>
>
> I'm wondering how we are all feeling about the platform these days....
>
>
>
> I notice that in the new Haskell pages, the Platform is definitely not th=
e
> recommended way to go: The main download pages suggests the compiler and
> base libraries as the first option - and the text for the Platform (secon=
d
> option) pretty much steers folks away from it. Of the per-OS download
> pages, only the Windows version even mentions it.
>
>
>
> Does this mean that we don't want to consider continuing with it? It is a
> lot of community effort to put out a Platform release - we shouldn't do i=
t
> if we don't really want it.
>
>
>
> That said, I note that the other ways to "officially get" Haskell look, t=
o
> my eye, very ad hoc. Many of the options involve multiple steps, and
> exactly what one is getting isn't clear. It hardly looks like there is no=
w
> an "official, correct" way to setup Haskell.
>
>
>
> The Platform arose in an era before sandboxes and before curated library
> sets like Stackage and LTS. Last time we set direction was several years
> ago. These new features and development have clearly changed the landscap=
e
> for use to reconsider what to do.
>
>
>
>
>
> I don't think the status quo for the Platform is now viable - mostly as
> evidenced by waning interest in maintaining it. I offer several ways we
> could proceed:
>
>
>
> *1) Abandon the Platform.* GHC is release in source and binary form.
> Other package various installers, with more or less things, for various
> OSes.
>
>
>
> *2) Slim the Platform.* Pare it back to GHC + base + a smaller set of
> "essential" libs + tools. Keeps a consistent build layout and installatio=
n
> mechanism for Haskell.
>
>
>
> *3) Re-conceive the Platform.* Take a very minimal install approach,
> coupled with close integration with a curated library set that makes it
> easy to have a rich canonical, stable environment. This was the core idea
> around my "GPS Haskell" thoughts from last September - but there would be
> much to work out in this direction.
>
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> =E2=80=94 Mark
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-devs mailing list
> ghc-devs at haskell.org
> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs
>
>
--f46d0444e8ed5d0eef0511f204e5
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">From the=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.haskell.org/ghc/downl=
oad_ghc_7_8_4">downloads</a>=C2=A0page on the=C2=A0GHC homepage:<div><br></=
div><div><h1 style=3D"font-style:italic;font-size:22.3999996185303px;border=
-bottom-width:2px;border-bottom-style:solid;border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);=
color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:sans-serif"><a name=3D"7.8.4">Version 7.8.4 (r=
eleased December 23rd 2014)</a></h1></div><div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,=
0);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:medium;width:1080px;padding-left:10px;p=
adding-right:10px;margin-left:auto;margin-right:auto;border:1px solid black=
;background:rgb(224,224,224)"><p style=3D"font-size:20.7999992370605px;colo=
r:red">Stop!</p><p>For most users, we recommend installing the=C2=A0<a href=
=3D"http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,160);text-=
decoration:none">Haskell Platform</a>=C2=A0instead of GHC. The current Hask=
ell Platform release includes a recent GHC release as well as some other to=
ols (such as cabal), and a larger set of libraries that are known to work t=
ogether.</p></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:sans-serif;fon=
t-size:medium;width:1080px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:10px;margin-left=
:auto;margin-right:auto;border:1px solid black;background:rgb(224,224,224)"=
></div><br><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote">On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 11:01 AM, Simon Peyton Jones <span dir=3D=
"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:simonpj at microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">simonp=
j at microsoft.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">I notice that in the ne=
w Haskell pages, the Platform is definitely not the recommended way to go:
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri"=
;,sans-serif">Like Richard, I was astonished by this. I always thought that=
the Haskell Platform was
<b><i>the</i></b> route of choice to install GHC, together with a respectab=
le set of libraries. =C2=A0=C2=A0It=E2=80=99s certainly what I install on a=
new machine!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-=
serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-=
serif">Let=E2=80=99s not forget the large but non-vocal set of ill-informed=
and/or would-be users, who want a simple answer to =E2=80=9CHow do I insta=
ll GHC?=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 It may be that the HP formula
needs re-visiting, but I think it=E2=80=99s very important that we continu=
e to give a very simple (click here) answer to that question.<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-=
serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-=
serif">Simon<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-=
serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> =
Libraries [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:libraries-bounces at haskell.org" target=
=3D"_blank">libraries-bounces at haskell.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark Lentczner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 21 March 2015 17:54<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ghc-devs at haskell.org" target=3D"_blank">ghc-de=
vs at haskell.org</a>; Haskell Libraries; <a href=3D"mailto:haskell-platform at p=
rojects.haskell.org" target=3D"_blank">haskell-platform at projects.haskell.or=
g</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:haskell-infrastructure at community.galois.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">haskell-infrastructure at community.galois.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> wither the Platform<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin=
-left:0cm">
I'm wondering how we are all feeling about the platform these days....<=
u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin=
-left:0cm">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin=
-left:0cm">
I notice that in the new Haskell pages, the Platform is definitely not the =
recommended way to go: The main download pages suggests the compiler and ba=
se libraries as the first option - and the text for the Platform (second op=
tion) pretty much steers folks away
from it. Of the per-OS download pages, only the Windows version even menti=
ons it.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin=
-left:0cm">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin=
-left:0cm">
Does this mean that we don't want to consider continuing with it? It is=
a lot of community effort to put out a Platform release - we shouldn't=
do it if we don't really want it.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin=
-left:0cm">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin=
-left:0cm">
That said, I note that the other ways to "officially get" Haskell=
look, to my eye, very ad hoc. Many of the options involve multiple steps, =
and exactly what one is getting isn't clear. It hardly looks like there=
is now an "official, correct" way to setup Haskell.<u></u><u></u=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin=
-left:0cm">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin=
-left:0cm">
The Platform arose in an era before sandboxes and before curated library se=
ts like Stackage and LTS. Last time we set direction was several years ago.=
These new features and development have clearly changed the landscape for =
use to reconsider what to do.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin=
-left:0cm">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin=
-left:0cm">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin=
-left:0cm">
I don't think the status quo for the Platform is now viable - mostly as=
evidenced by waning interest in maintaining it. I offer several ways we co=
uld proceed:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin=
-left:0cm">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin=
-left:0cm">
<b>1) Abandon the Platform.</b> GHC is release in source and binary form. O=
ther package various installers, with more or less things, for various OSes=
.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin=
-left:0cm">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin=
-left:0cm">
<b>2) Slim the Platform.</b> Pare it back to GHC + base + a smaller set of =
"essential" libs + tools. Keeps a consistent build layout and ins=
tallation mechanism for Haskell.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin=
-left:0cm">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin=
-left:0cm">
<b>3) Re-conceive the Platform.</b> Take a very minimal install approach, c=
oupled with close integration with a curated library set that makes it easy=
to have a rich canonical, stable environment. This was the core idea aroun=
d my "GPS Haskell" thoughts from
last September - but there would be much to work out in this direction.<u>=
</u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin=
-left:0cm">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin=
-left:0cm">
Thoughts?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin=
-left:0cm">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin=
-left:0cm">
=E2=80=94 Mark<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin=
-left:0cm">
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
ghc-devs mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:ghc-devs at haskell.org">ghc-devs at haskell.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs</a><=
br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
--f46d0444e8ed5d0eef0511f204e5--
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